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The era of modern warmaking was at hand. In this last volume of his classic history of the art of war, Hans Delbrück considers new developments: the use of gunpowder, the invention of firearms, and the employment of noisy large cannon that shot stone and, later, iron balls. After reviewing the establishment of a European infantry, Delbrück. Feb 04,  · (MCMLXXXI) was a common year starting on Thursday of the Gregorian calendar, the st year of the Common Era (CE) and Anno Domini (AD) designations, the st year of the 2nd millennium, the 81st year of the 20th century, and the 2nd year of the s decade.. Calendar year. January [edit]. January 1 January 10 – Salvadoran Civil War: The .

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In search of a female companion with a specific ethnicity? Prostitutes Delbrueck I think if we cite this source for WB statement instead of Variety, then there shouldn't be any objection for using "In response to the criticisms" instead of "In response to a number of criticisms and concerns arising from within Iran" or other similar Prostitutes Delbrueck for the opening of WB statement.

Any thoughts? If there isn't any objection, I'll Prostitutes Delbrueck ahead and change the citation. Sbn18 April UTC [ reply ]. Nope, we Prostitutes Delbrueck it to be as official as possible. Variety represents the film industry. Alientraveller22 April UTC [ reply ]. Actually, Alientraveller made the key point here.

When considering the weight reliability-speaking of the citation, Variety does write specifically to the movie industry point of view.

The citation you suggested as replacement is a great deal more opinionated, and almost reads as a historical accuracy or political aspect section sort of thing. Clearly it shouldn't replace the variety article simply because they both use the WB Prostitutes Delbrueck Department statement. I wasn't so much aggreeing that it should replace the Variety article, but should be discussed for inclusion elsewhere.

Silence does not equal consensus. It is strange if Persian which referes to the nationality be linked to the name of the dynasty.

Shahingohar18 April UTC [ reply ]. For reference - Prostitutes Delbrueck diff under discussion [10]. I don't agree with your change. This page is not intended for historians or people who are interested in history. I Prostitutes Delbrueck Achaemenid is very strange for many users but Persian is clear.

BTW Persian is used in the movie. I think we should add a Effect on Pop Culture section about the Prostitutes Delbrueck like This is madness and the image macro of Leonidas. I think the "political aspects" section needs serious cleanup. Currently there is too many unbalanced and unsubstantiated quotations from various all but serious sources.

For example, there is number of rude and doubtful quotes from not well known or respected journalists and critics Dana Stevens, Gene Seymour, etcwho I don't think need to be quoted at all in an encyclopedic article. I think to make this section look good, we need to remove most of the critics quotes, leaving only few example of both positive and negative critique. I would at least remove the ridiculous quotation regarding "incitement to total war", but most of the others as well.

In fact, most of the quotation are rather silly and twaddle, hardly worth quoting. I've noticed that the 'Historical Accuarcy' section of the article has left out some clear facts:. Firstly, it has not discussed the fact that Herodotus' estimation of the total number Prostitutes Delbrueck Xerxes' Prostitutes Delbrueck is disputed by all but the most ignorant historians on the face of the planet!

The film suggests a million men fought the Spartans. Yes, Prostitutes Delbrueck Spartans were outnumbered, but certainly by that great extent. Most historians believe that the figure that should be attributed ismen. Even then, it does not take into account the fact that Xerxes would have left behind men to garrison the occupied territories in Greece that had been conquered beforehand, including Macedonia.

And, there's also the fact that a large number of men with sailors onboard Persian ships; and that many soldiers and sailors were killed when a Persian fleet was caught up in a storm and destroyed which I'm glad the film did depict. Also, the cloting and equipment of the soldiers was all wrong. Granted, they did get the Spartans right Prostitutes Delbrueck a great extent, but there are so many Prostitutes Delbrueck areas Prostitutes Delbrueck in regards to the Persians, including armour and the use of horses.

Thirdly, which Prostitutes Delbrueck annoys me, is that the film claims that the war started with the Spartans going to confront the Persians at Thermopylai. Prostitutes Delbrueck didn't! The Greeks, including the Athenians et al, had decided to confront the Persians much earlier.

Prostitutes Delbrueck before the battle at Thermopylai, the Greeks fought a battle at Artemision.

I think to make this section look good, we need to remove most of the critics quotes, leaving only few example of both positive and negative critique.

There was never any doubt that the Spartans would go to war after it had been decided by Prostitutes Delbrueck majority of Greek states.

The film claims that the Spartan amry couldn't go because of a major religious event. That did stop the Spartans from going to the Athenian's aid at the Battle of Marathon, but that didn't apply in the suituation that had now been presented. In fact, it Prostitutes Delbrueck the Athenian navy who turned the tide at the Battle of Salamis.

Anyway, there are a lot more facts that I had in my mind, Prostitutes Delbrueck I've forgotton them for the moment. Give me Prostitutes Delbrueck few minutes and the anger will swell up again :. Basically, there are a lot of things which have been ommised, and I hope that the ok is given for me to update the article in the section I've specified.

Prostitutes Delbrueck key word is fictionalized. We're not going to turn the article into a laundry list when the film is intentionally inaccurate. Then why bother putting in a 'Historical Accuarcy' section in the first place? To reply to EasyPeasy, there is no accredited historian who believes, and commands any modern support, that Xerxes army numberedThe lowest estimate available is , standard agreement being atexcluding naval personnel and retainers; Persian sources suggestAgain,commands no support in the historical community.

Apologies for lack of User profile. Eduard Meyer As cited in W. II, p. Need I quote any more references of 'accredited' historians? Hey, as long as Prostitutes Delbrueck good quality, I don't care when it was written! The information complied then still has as much relevence Prostitutes Delbrueck as it did when it was published. Regardless of what the previous commentors here want to believe, the fact of the matter is there has never been scholarly consensus on the number of Persians and allies and frankly the movie doesn't even try to get right the number of Greeks.

So to pick one wildly differing number Prostitutes Delbrueck another-all of which have been plausibly argued- seems pointless. Perhaps I should have been less virtiolic in regard to who is 'accredited,' but you will still notice that, as the previous user commented, all such articles cited are out of date by several decades.

The writers that you mentioned are of the school of thought that followed the perspective of the 'malice of Herodotus' and are thought to almost certainly to have swung too far the other way in their estimation. By your logic of including these authors, I could make a case for resurrecting Bishop Stubbs theories on kingship and constitutionalism simply by citing other famous 19th century historians who followed the same logic. Nor, for that matter, is Herodotus alone in his thinking, Diodorus reports a combined, including the collaborating Greeks, total of 1, and, while Diodrous Prostitutes Delbrueck hardly a reliable source in such matters.

Prostitutes Delbrueck, as an unfortuane rule I have noticed, tends to adopt his figures over other contemporary historians. If you would like examples, Herodotus and Xenophon are the Prostitutes Delbrueck individuals challenged.

While not to get into a Prostitutes Delbrueck over the numbers themselve, we have little reason to Prostitutes Delbrueck that these numbers are any more than educated, and indeed prejudiced, guesses. Prostitutes Delbrueck one can deny that Herodotus extremes are ludicrous, but to say that 'most' historians believeis equally so. Unsigned User. Ancient Prostitutes Delbrueck may have been wrong but they did not make any "estimates", they had Prostitutes Delbrueck source behind their claims. There really Prostitutes Delbrueck a consensus figure but consensus range would be betweenandSo K is the lowest.

As far as I remember the film does not mention any numbers, Leonidas goes to the ephors "Persians claim Prostitutes Delbrueck armies numbering in the millions". It was the commercial which claimed 1M, not the film itself.

Miskin8 May UTC Prostitutes Delbrueck reply ]. It appears that there is already a debate of this type established in 'revert' section of the Battle of Thermopylae wiki; everyone should view this and maybe transfer the debate there.

I agree. I'm quite pleased that my original post has got such an obviously heated debate going. To one of the comments suggesting that the film does say that it is a fictional re-telling. I totally agree; yet everyone else has made such a fuss about the historical background, Prostitutes Delbrueck I thought I might put my 2 cents worth in. Yet, although I cannot list them accurately, several modern sources from the past have agreed that Xerxes' army numbered in the hundreds of thousands, as opposed to the millions that was suggested by Herdotus.

However, I think we can conclude this debate on this particular talk page by agreeing with Cuffeparade's comment; that it doesn't matter to how great a degree the Prostitutes Delbrueck were outnumbered. The point is, they were! All I wanted to do is to educate the ignorant that there are other interpretations as to the true number in Prostitutes Delbrueck army. That's all. I Prostitutes Delbrueck want to say that, no matter what, the film does accurately illustrate Prostitutes Delbrueck message that it was meant to convey: about standing up against the odds!

Does anyone think this article should have qoutes? I don't recall Prostitutes Delbrueck any such post, except for mine, which was immediately rejected. So, if we have not had an end Prostitutes Delbrueck voting, why are these edits popping up:.

Excuse me, but isn't this precisely the sort of edit-warring, clownish nonsense that using Discussion was supposed to avoid?

Leave the lead alone until a consensus is arrived at. The voting isn't completed, and cartainly, consensus has not been reached. I proposed an alternative that essentially sidesteps the entire argument. Of course, it Prostitutes Delbrueck reverted by The Prostitutes Delbrueck sentence is gramatically incorrect. The mention of The Spartans in the middle makes it a run on sentence.

I'm not arguing with the poeple that want it put in, I would just like to see it written properly. If anything it should be split into two. Miller's novel is itself partly inspired by another film, The Spartans. That said, since the statement about the spartans came from the letter section of during it's initial release and refers to the development of the book, wouldn't it be better placed there?

The Spartans isn't referenced anywhere else in this article, and the only citation relating to it came from the graphic novel, so what is it doing in the lead sentence? Also, the citation currently in the lead for the Spartans doesn't mention the film at all, but is commentary on film critics that Prostitutes Delbrueck like and regular movie goers that Prostitutes Delbrueck.

Arcayne cast a spell25 April Prostitutes Delbrueck [ reply ]. There's been an official discussion, and if you missed out, that's your loss. Alientraveller26 April UTC [ reply ].

Does anyone Prostitutes Delbrueck if the early life of Leonida is presented accurately in this film? Can someone fix the link for reference 57? Starcraftmazter25 April UTC [ reply ].

Prostitutes Delbrueck26 April UTC [ reply ]. This in "Depiction of Persians": "are stroking racist instincts in Europe and America.

Alientraveller , 26 April UTC [ reply ].

Totnesmartin26 April UTC [ reply ]. I Prostitutes Delbrueck not sure what you are saying here; is Prostitutes Delbrueck your contention that the article incorrectly translated the reviewer's statements? Arcayne cast a spell Prostitutes Delbrueck, 26 April UTC [ reply ]. I thought I would provide the proper definitions of the word here, Prostitutes Delbrueck as to allay any concerns about the usage of the terms:.

Also, see here. So, ipso facto, when a word is used incorrectly in a quoted source, we do not paraphrase, but instead note the improper usage of that word. Him they know but how differently they will caress the racist reflexives of white masses, Europeans and American women? To quote this policy directly:. The neutral point of view is a means of dealing with conflicting views. The policy requires that, where there are or have been conflicting views, these should be presented fairly.

The section 'historical accuracy' has long abided by NPOV by presenting all views fairly.

So, take your time and enjoy the process!

In order to remedy the problem I had to add both conflicting views. Miskin26 April UTC [ reply ]. What consensus is Mardavich talking about? The Prostitutes Delbrueck where a large number of previously uninvolved Iranian editors showed up in the vote out of nowhere?

Was it the same consensus where anons and red users were counted in as if they were all different editors? Mardavich you're wasting your time this way, Prostitutes Delbrueck not going debate with you on a personal level anymore. You can even go as far as violating fundamental wp:policies Prostitutes Delbrueck order to establish your pov. Prostitutes Delbrueck would you say about seeking mediation? Miskin27 April UTC [ reply ].

Oh yeah, then what about the two sources that you removed? What about two of the most specialised historians on the topic making positive remarks on its historical accuracy?

Prostitutes Delbrueck that a fringe view? If you fail to do so then I think we have a Prostitutes Delbrueck to include both views, or none if you prefer. There's no way one of them will be ignored because some editors decided that it's "anti-Iranian" already stated previously. If you don't like it then go on with your other measures. I'd like to ask a serious, uninvolved editor whether he thinks that the defensive declaration of an anonymous person from WB is more reliable than the view of Snyder and Paul Cartledgeto the point of ignoring the latter's view completely which is what Mardavich implies.

If you think Prostitutes Delbrueck their view is a "fringe view" then it has to be established.

Your personal opinion is not a source nor a policy, please Prostitutes Delbrueck that in mind for all edits or rather reverts that you make in wikipedia. Well, perhaps we should try 3rd Opinion or begin mediation. Or maybe even that ArbCom that someone threatened everyone with last week. Arcayne cast a spell27 April UTC [ reply ]. I am sorry, what "two views"? There are two aspects :. There can be no question that the Miller strip clearly qualifies as a fictionalisation of Herodotus.

It can still be added that it Prostitutes Delbrueck follows the events as recounted there. Prostitutes Delbrueck is not about "controversy", it is just about turning a blind eye to one or the other of these two points.

I could live with "" a fictionalized retelling of the Battle of Thermopylae "" a meld of the two. Arcayne cast a spell3 May UTC [ reply ]. I must admit I missed the evolution of this section. So far there seems to be a general agreement Prostitutes Delbrueck. We have to await for new suggestions. I just hope that some editors can finally understand the second point, Prostitutes Delbrueck. Dbachmann and Jackmitchell what do you think of simply not saying anything about the "nature" of the film in the lead?

The "historical acurracy" sections provides alread sufficient on the topic.

The Hidden History of Humanity

Miskin5 May UTC [ reply ]. Prostitutes Delbrueck the article's prior issues been resolved so that the article will be stable enough to renominate for GA? I don't want the article Prostitutes Delbrueck be renominated and then delisted later again down the road if there are still Prostitutes Delbrueck that need to be addressed.

I'm impressed with the large amount of work that was put in the article, and believe that it would be great to get it back up to GA. What do you guys think? Under the plot section, it says, "The Spartans use the phalanx formation and hand to hand combat to fight Prostitutes Delbrueck numerous waves of attackers," Is use of hand to hand here really appropriate? Judging by what the article itself actually says and from common sense, Prostitutes Delbrueck doesn't really seem to be the correct words to use.

Homan30 April UTC [ reply ].

The Dawn of Modern Warfare : Nebraska Press

Well, since the purpose of Prostitutes Delbrueck sentence is to describe how the Spartans hold off the Persians, how about "the Spartans use the phalanx formation, the narrow terrain, and thier fighting skill to hold of the Persian Prostitutes Delbrueck or somesuch? I mean, its fairly obvious that they're using weapons to fight the Persians, so that seems Prostitutes Delbrueck silly to mention in the article itself. Peptuck7 May UTC [ reply ]. The last sentence under "reviews" says " Spartan Queen serving no major narrative purpose except to be serviced by Leonidas and raped by Theron.

The Spartan Queen "agreed" to have sex with Theron. She slipped off her clothing "strap" after he told her what he wanted in exchange for his cooperation. I think it amounts more to prostitution than rape. Sorry if I made Prostitutes Delbrueck mistakes, I don't often contribute, but I just wanted to point that out. In Prostitutes Delbrueck case, the actual quote is Prostitutes Delbrueck the article says only that Gorgo is 'serviced' by Leonidas, nothing more.

Clearly, if the reviewer is wrong, then it might serve as a starting point to find a new review that discusses the same subject matter accurately.

Who amongst you vital young sould wished to Prostitutes Delbrueck for such a tepid mission? Arcayne cast a spell5 May UTC [ reply ]. I've removed the soundtrack image again. In fact, it was purely decorative.

I concur.

The Dawn of Modern Warfare

Alientraveller3 May UTC [ reply ]. With this argument about "decorative" purpose, then film posters should be Prostitutes Delbrueck as well, even though I've rarely seen film articles Prostitutes Delbrueck poster design. Like a poster, the soundtrack cover establishes a visual key for the content. The image is of ridiculously Prostitutes Delbrueck quality, and the fair use rationale applies to it just fine.

Wait, am I understanding your statements correctly?

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The citation you suggested as replacement is a great deal more opinionated, and almost reads as a historical accuracy or political aspect section sort of thing. Are you an escort? Perhaps I should have been less virtiolic in regard to who is 'accredited,' but you will still notice that, as the previous user commented, all such articles cited are out of date by several decades.